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Phiroze Hansotia, The most significant thing to remember is that life is not a business. It does not exist for any particular end, it exists for the sheer joy of existing. There is no goal as such. Hence the moment you have achieved silence, meditativeness, awareness, prayerfulness, and you are capable of living the moment in total abandon, then there is no goal, no end. To live passionately in that moment is a blessing unto itself.

But that’s how the mind works... Now, Phiroze is a doctor– he must be a Ph.D. or D.Litt.– he is a professor at the University of Wisconsin, so he is thinking logically. And life is not logic, life is not philosophy. Life is a dance, a song, a celebration! It is more like love and less like logic.

Do you ever ask why you love, to what end? Do you ever ask why you appreciate a beautiful sunset, to what end? Do you ask why the starry nights are beautiful? Why the roses are beautiful? Why a certain face, certain eyes, a certain gesture suddenly catches your heart and you miss a heartbeat? What happens? To what end?

Logic is business. In business you always ask, ’What am I going to gain out of it? What is going to be the profit?’ And I tell you, your so-called religions are all businesslike because they all tell you that you will attain paradise and the kingdom of God and you will have all kinds of heavenly pleasures– beautiful women who remain always young, with golden bodies, who don’t perspire!

I have heard:

Muktananda died... It is a future story! And the same day, after a few hours, one of his disciples died. The disciple was very excited when he reached heaven. He was thinking that Paramahansa Baba Muktananda must be enjoying heaven, now he must be getting all the rewards possible for those who were siddhas, for those whose kundalini has risen. And he was dreaming and fantasizing about what he was going to see. And when he reached inside, certainly the stories that he had heard before were true.

Muktananda was sitting under a tree and Sophia Loren was sitting in his lap! And they were hugging and kissing each other. The disciple fell at the feet of Muktananda and said, ’My great Master, so you have been well rewarded!’ Muktananda said, ’Shut up, you fool! I have not been rewarded, it is Sophia Loren who is being punished!’

Certainly, to hug Muktananda is a punishment! But all these people have been thinking of heavenly pleasures. There are rivers of wine, vodka! Here Morarji Desai is drinking his urine... and the reward? The reward is, he will go to heaven where rivers of wine will be made available to him. Then he will take revenge for all that he has done, all that sacrifice of drinking wine for his whole life. How much he has suffered! This is true asceticism!

One never knows what he is doing in privacy... he may be doing even more ascetic things! This is a publicly known fact, but there must be some private, secret practices also. He will be rewarded, greatly rewarded! These are all projections of greed. And those who are not drinking urine, beware. You will suffer in hellfire! It is better to drink urine and be finished with hell– urine is not so bad. In hell, who knows? And now with all the latest technology, what new tortures must they not have invented! And all these people– Adolf Hitler and Joseph Stalin and Mao Tse Tung– are there, and they must have become ministers of the devil. They must be helping him to find new ways of torturing people. Forget all about this old idea of hell, that you will be thrown in fire; that is five thousand years old. In five thousand years so much water has gone down the Ganges that it is not possible that there still exists that old type of torture.

One man, one Indian– he must be like Phiroze Hansotia was living in Germany. When he died he went to hell. He was a sinner– a sinner because he never drank his urine. He never did any stupid thing, that’s why he was a sinner. He never fasted, he never tortured himself, he lived comfortably. of course, if you live comfortably you will have to suffer, because things have to be balanced. Sometimes I wonder... God has been living so comfortable for so long, what will happen ultimately to this poor guy? He will fall into the seventh hell or even deeper than that if there is some hell deeper than that. He will reach the rock bottom.

This man who was born in India but lived in Germany was given a choice. The devil asked him, ’Because you were born in India and you lived in Germany a choice can be given to you. To what hell do you want to go– to the Indian hell or to the German?’ The Indian was a little puzzled. He said, ’What is the difference? Obviously, before I can decide I have to know the difference.’

And the devil said, ’There is no difference– the same routine has to be followed.’ The Indian asked, ’Then why are you asking me to choose? The devil laughed. He said, ’There are a few minor differences. For example, the German hell is very efficient, everybody is on duty exactly on time, the electricity never fails.’ And he said, ’You know, German torture is German torture!

In the Indian hell nobody is ever on time, and there are so many holidays. There are even people there whom you can bribe. And after all, they are Indians– lazy, lousy. The electricity fails at least fifty times every day. Sometimes the electricity is off the whole day.’ The Indian said, ’Then I will go to the Indian hell, I don’t want to go to the German one. I have lived in Germany and I know their efficiency!’

Greed and fear have dominated the religious scene for centuries, and both are absolutely irrelevant. The religious person is one who lives without fear and without greed.

Phiroze, you ask me: 'To what end do we lead our lives?'

There is no end– there is no fixed end. Life is a creativity. We live moment to moment, rejoicing in the moment. The question is asked only because we are always looking to the future: ’To what end...?’ We are not herenow, we are always looking to the future.

But then you will be in an infinite regression, because if it is said that life is lived to attain paradise then the question will arise: ’To what end is paradise? Why should one live in Paradise? To what end?’ This question will remain the same and will still remain relevant. And if it is said, as has been said in India, that paradise is not the last thing– you have to go to moksha– beyond paradise... But to what end? Even if you reach moksha...

Just as you ask, ’Having achieved that meditative moment, to what end do we live?’ You will ask the same question, Phiroze, if you reach moksha: ’To what end...?’ Just think: Mahavira and Buddha and Patanjali have been living in moksha. What are they doing? Centuries have passed... just sitting under the trees doing nothing? Not even a coffee break! No sandwiches available, no spaghetti at all! No radios, no television, no newspapers.

They must be feeling very silly, sitting under the trees. And for how long? For ever! Now they cannot come back, because once you become enlightened finished! You cannot become unenlightened again, that is the difficulty. I have been trying for twenty-five years– impossible! I have tried all methods: standing on my head, doing all kinds of things, but you cannot become unenlightened again. That simply is not part of the law of existence. So beware! Before you decide to become enlightened don’t be in a hurry. If you want to do something else finish it, because once you are enlightened you are enlightened forever! Just think what it means: forever...

So, Phiroze, in moksha also you will ask: ’To what end...?’ And Mahavira and Buddha will shrug their shoulders and they will look down, ashamed, because now there is no way to go back and there is nowhere else higher to go either. Living in a kind of limbo, not knowing what to do, ’to what end’.

Life is purposeless. Don’t be shocked. The whole idea of purpose is wrong– it comes out of greed. Life is a sheer joy, a playfulness, a fun, a laughter, to no purpose at all. Life is its own end, it has no other end. The moment you understand it you have understood what meditation is all about. It is living your life joyously, playfully, totally, and with no purpose at the end, with no purpose in view, no purpose there at all.

Just like small children playing on the sea beach, collecting seashells and coloured stones– for what purpose? There is no purpose at all.

When I was a small child I used to bring as many stones and shells from the river as I could collect, and I would go to my bed with all the stones and all the shells in my pockets. And my father would say, ’Throw these things away! For what purpose do you go on carrying them?’ And I always asked him, ’First you answer me: For what purpose are you living? For what purpose do you go on doing your business, earning money, raising your children? For what purpose?’

And he would always say, ’It is futile to argue with you! So go to bed! Keep your stones and whatsoever you want!’ But he would again forget and when he would see all those stones in my pockets, again he would ask, ’For what purpose?’ And I was always ready: ’First prove to me for what purpose you are living. If you can keep money in your safe, why can’t I keep my stones in my pockets? I don’t have a safe– otherwise give me a safe. I will keep my stones in the safe. Prove to me... It is your question, not my question! I.have never asked anybody, ”For what purpose...?”’

Finally he dropped the idea, thinking that ’This boy is absolutely incurable!’

When I came back home from the university, he didn’t ask me about marriage– which is very natural in India. The moment you come back from the university, the first thing is, ’Now get married!’ He knew me–that it would create unnecessary argument. So indirectly... he asked one of his advocate friends who was very argumentative and used to shout in court and was very well-known to win cases– cases which were impossible to win... And he used to win those cases just because he was the greatest shouter in the town. He would bang on the table and shout and throw law books and create such a mess that everybody was afraid of him! And they were friends so he asked him.

The advocate said, ’This is simple! I have defeated great advocates, I have convinced very shrewd magistrates and I have won cases even for murderers, so this is nothing. I am coming tomorrow.’ He came and he asked me, ’Why don’t you get married?’ I said, ’Perfectly okay! I will get married!’

He was at a loss what to do, because he had come with great preparation, with all the arguments in favour of marriage and its beauty and its joy and its intimacy, and all that bullshit! I said, ’Perfectly okay! Where is the girl? Do you have a daughter?’ He said, ’This is strange! Your father was telling me that it is very difficult to convince you, but you don’t argue at all!’ I said, ’I don’t argue at all. I am ready to get married– you bring the girl. But first, before you bring a girl, you have to tell me one thing, you have to convince me about one thing: what purpose have you achieved through your marriage? I trust you– you are a friend of my father’s, you are almost like a father to me. I trust you! If you say so, I will get married. But you have to tell me one thing– what have you achieved? Because I know your married life. You may have won many cases in court, but I know what happens in your home! You have not been able to win a single quarrel. And I am going directly to your wife!’

He said, ’What do you mean? Why are you going to my wife? What has she got to do with it?’ I said, ’In front of her you have to prove what you have attained, to what purpose your life has been, what joy you have attained.’ And I said, ’I will get married– I am ready– if you convince me of what your life has attained. All those arguments you have come prepared with... and I have not given you a chance. But if you cannot convince me then you will have to divorce your wife! Either I get married or you get divorced!’

After that I would go to his house every day, and sometimes he would hide in the bathroom, sometimes he would escape by the back door. His wife became very worried: ’What is the matter? Why is he so afraid of this boy?’ And she asked me, ’What is the matter? He is not even so afraid of me! He hides in the bathroom, he says he is sick, ”Tell that boy!” And he is not sick. He continuously worries about you. What is the matter?’ I told her, ’This is the matter– it is a question for you to think over too. He has to prove it! And I have been contacting all the neighbours. I will collect all the neighbours who are my witnesses that his life is the most miserable in the whole town! He has to prove that he has achieved some bliss. If he cannot prove it, then he has to divorce you!’

She said, ’What!’ I said, ’That is the question. If 1 have to get married then he has also to put something at stake. It is a gamble! I am gambling my whole life, I am gambling my future– he has to gamble his past. I have no past, he has no future!’

He was listening from the bathroom. He came out and touched my feet. He said, ’Forgive me, and I will never bother you anymore! Don’t disturb my life! I am already in so much trouble, and you are haunting me every day. Even in the night I see you in my dreams. And I know that you can defeat me – you have got hold of my weak point!’

Life has no purpose, Phiroze. Nothing has any purpose; that’s the beauty of life. The moment you bring purpose in you destroy the beauty. Love has no purpose and meditation certainly is absolutely beyond the idea of purpose. There is no end beyond it, it has intrinsic value. It is not a means to some end, it is an end unto itself.

And you say: 'Having achieved that'... That is only a supposition – you have not achieved that. You are just asking a question for the question’s sake, because anybody who has achieved that moment of meditation cannot ask this question.

You are asking: 'Having achieved that, to what end do we live?'

Once you have achieved meditation all ends disappear. You simply live as the flowers live, as the birds live, as the stars live. You become part of this universal festival of existence, of joy, of beauty. This whole grandeur, this splendour is yours. To be meditative simply means dropping all ego trips– purpose is also an ego trip– dropping all goals, being herenow.

And you ask: 'What has happened here is immensely overpowering and beautiful. Will it last?'

You have lost it already! If it had been immensely overpowering and beautiful you would not ask the question, ’Will it last?’ Who cares? This moment is enough! Who knows about the next moment? And why should one bother about the next moment? If you are beautiful and blissful this moment you know how to be blissful and beautiful in the next moment. And you will not have two moments together ever, you will always only have one moment. When one is lost you get another. That is lost, you get another. You get one moment at a time, and if you know how to be blissful in a single moment you have the key for being blissful forever; there is no need to lose it.

But you are asking: 'Will it last?'

Already you have started thinking of the future, already you have lost contact with the present, already you are not here– you have gone to America. You are already in hell– that’s where America is! The old Indian idea was that if you dig a hole in the earth and go on digging, go on digging, just exactly there you will reach hell. You will simply reach America! And for American, India is a hell; if they go on digging they will come to India. In fact, all this travelling can be stopped– just a hole is needed so people can be thrown from here to America and from America to India! You can even play football– and to no purpose, just for the sheer joy of it!

You have already left this overwhelming and beautiful space. You are already thinking, ’What is going to happen in America? How will I be able to be so peaceful, so laughing, so loving?’ But why bother about it? The next moment has not come yet and when it comes you will know the secret of responding to it.

Live moment to moment– that’s the message.